PROPHETIC MOVEMENT in AN UPROAR - Please Forward
> -Andrew Strom.
>
> Earlier this week we published big chunks of Dennis Cramer's
> "Word for 2011" in which he basically tears into a lot of the flakey
> and dangerous "New Age"-type practices found in today's
> Prophetic movement. Well, to my great amazement, I found that
> the Elijah List had actually published Cramer's piece as well! And
> it caused such a storm that they had to remove it after just one
> day - for "clarification"! But then they re-published it - only slightly
> changed!
>
> For those who don't know, the Elijah List is the main email List
> for the Prophetic movement - publishing the likes of Todd Bentley,
> Patricia King, Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, etc. It also sells mounds
> of their books and CD's. For the Elijah List to publish something
> that basically refutes all the "Spirit Travel" and "Third Heaven
> Visitation" stuff is simply unbelievable. It would almost be like
> the Pope refuting the veneration of Mary!
>
> I don't know what the Elijah List was thinking, but I'm sure glad
> they did it. Now maybe there's a chance that some of their readers
> will get out from under those dangerous deceptions.
>
> But I am left a bit dazed by it all - because the very ones who
> have been advocating "spirit travel AT WILL" and "Trance dancing"
> and 'Third Heaven visits AT WILL' are the very ministries that the
> Elijah List has been promoting all these years!
>
> Here is what the Elijah List founder Steve Schultz wrote after they
> pulled the first article when it caused such a storm-
> "Dear Elijah List Readers, There was a huge number of people
> who were unclear on a few issues with Dennis Cramer’s word...
> The most controversial aspect was the “AT WILL” issue. Apparently,
> there are some out and about who are teaching that you can
> transport or go to Heaven “AT WILL” – i.e. whenever you want. This
> is truly not taught in Scripture. The word “Doctrine” is another word
> for “teaching.” It’s an untrue teaching that anytime you want, you
> can go to Heaven or be transported... As soon as Dennis Cramer
> sends us a more in-depth explanation of the items he listed, we
> plan to repost my friend’s word."
>
> ANDREW AGAIN: Steve - I'm so glad you wrote this, but do you
> truly realize what you are saying? Don't you know that Bob Jones
> and Todd Bentley and Patricia King, etc, are the VERY BIGGEST
> promoters of all this "AT WILL" deception that you are talking about?
> Patricia King even has a whole movement of "Ekstasis" Trance
> dancing! These guys have entire reams of teaching on how to
> "visualize" your way into the Third Heaven 'AT WILL'. They have
> been promoting it for years. Surely you know this? That's why
> your readers are so upset. Dennis Cramer is finally exposing and
> rebuking this stuff as the 'New Age' heresy that it really is.
>
> On January 15, Elijah List reposted the "re-clarified" word from
> Dennis Cramer on their website. It was a little softer in places,
> but still it said the following very clearly:
> "One cannot go to Heaven like Paul or be transported physically
> like Phillip simply because they want to or because they feel like
> it (at will). Teachings like this often crossover into dangerous
> methods and techniques that resemble New Age, Mysticism,
> Spiritism or other occult manipulative practices. A Believer cannot
> and must not force, manipulate, or otherwise attempt to reproduce
> a sovereign supernatural Bible experience by merely following a
> method, a series of steps, or worst of all “willing it” to happen."
>
> In the same re-posted word, Dennis Cramer went on to say-
>
> "• Open Heaven/Spiritual Portals = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Third Heaven Experiences At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Going to Heaven At Will to Get Your Gifts = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Transporting Physically At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Over-Emphasis on Angels and Specifically Arc-Angels = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Going into Trances At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Trance Dancing = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Hyper-Grace: Christians Do Not Need to Repent of Sin = BAD DOCTRINE"
>
> Well - there goes the Prophetic movement!!
> Seriously - I cannot believe they posted this on the Elijah List!
> Steve - This is exactly all the stuff your followers have gotten into!
> Most of the guys you promote - these are the exact 'New Age'-type
> practices that they teach! Surely you know this?
>
> So now, to finish this article, I need some "clarification" from Steve
> Schultz. I am very encouraged by this apparent change of heart,
> Steve, but I need to know if you will now CEASE forthwith any and
> all publication of the materials and teachings of these people - until
> they publicly repent and apologize for this 'New Age' heresy. And
> I need to know if you - Steve Schultz - will now publicly renounce
> the promotion of these deceptive preachers around the world. (Sorry
> to be so blunt about it, but we really need to hear this from you).
> I am so glad that you published Cramer's piece. But now we really
> need to know where Elijah List stands - and whether things have
> truly changed or not. We look forward to your reply.
>
> And I ask everyone reading this to please forward it to your
> Charismatic friends. People need to know that this stuff is finally
> being declared as "BAD DOCTRINE" - even by the Elijah List itself.
> Please let everyone know, so this deception can be stopped. You
> would be amazed how widespread it is.
>
> -You can comment on this article at the following website-
>
> http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/
>
> God bless you all.
>
> -Andrew Strom.
> -Andrew Strom.
>
> Earlier this week we published big chunks of Dennis Cramer's
> "Word for 2011" in which he basically tears into a lot of the flakey
> and dangerous "New Age"-type practices found in today's
> Prophetic movement. Well, to my great amazement, I found that
> the Elijah List had actually published Cramer's piece as well! And
> it caused such a storm that they had to remove it after just one
> day - for "clarification"! But then they re-published it - only slightly
> changed!
>
> For those who don't know, the Elijah List is the main email List
> for the Prophetic movement - publishing the likes of Todd Bentley,
> Patricia King, Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, etc. It also sells mounds
> of their books and CD's. For the Elijah List to publish something
> that basically refutes all the "Spirit Travel" and "Third Heaven
> Visitation" stuff is simply unbelievable. It would almost be like
> the Pope refuting the veneration of Mary!
>
> I don't know what the Elijah List was thinking, but I'm sure glad
> they did it. Now maybe there's a chance that some of their readers
> will get out from under those dangerous deceptions.
>
> But I am left a bit dazed by it all - because the very ones who
> have been advocating "spirit travel AT WILL" and "Trance dancing"
> and 'Third Heaven visits AT WILL' are the very ministries that the
> Elijah List has been promoting all these years!
>
> Here is what the Elijah List founder Steve Schultz wrote after they
> pulled the first article when it caused such a storm-
> "Dear Elijah List Readers, There was a huge number of people
> who were unclear on a few issues with Dennis Cramer’s word...
> The most controversial aspect was the “AT WILL” issue. Apparently,
> there are some out and about who are teaching that you can
> transport or go to Heaven “AT WILL” – i.e. whenever you want. This
> is truly not taught in Scripture. The word “Doctrine” is another word
> for “teaching.” It’s an untrue teaching that anytime you want, you
> can go to Heaven or be transported... As soon as Dennis Cramer
> sends us a more in-depth explanation of the items he listed, we
> plan to repost my friend’s word."
>
> ANDREW AGAIN: Steve - I'm so glad you wrote this, but do you
> truly realize what you are saying? Don't you know that Bob Jones
> and Todd Bentley and Patricia King, etc, are the VERY BIGGEST
> promoters of all this "AT WILL" deception that you are talking about?
> Patricia King even has a whole movement of "Ekstasis" Trance
> dancing! These guys have entire reams of teaching on how to
> "visualize" your way into the Third Heaven 'AT WILL'. They have
> been promoting it for years. Surely you know this? That's why
> your readers are so upset. Dennis Cramer is finally exposing and
> rebuking this stuff as the 'New Age' heresy that it really is.
>
> On January 15, Elijah List reposted the "re-clarified" word from
> Dennis Cramer on their website. It was a little softer in places,
> but still it said the following very clearly:
> "One cannot go to Heaven like Paul or be transported physically
> like Phillip simply because they want to or because they feel like
> it (at will). Teachings like this often crossover into dangerous
> methods and techniques that resemble New Age, Mysticism,
> Spiritism or other occult manipulative practices. A Believer cannot
> and must not force, manipulate, or otherwise attempt to reproduce
> a sovereign supernatural Bible experience by merely following a
> method, a series of steps, or worst of all “willing it” to happen."
>
> In the same re-posted word, Dennis Cramer went on to say-
>
> "• Open Heaven/Spiritual Portals = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Third Heaven Experiences At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Going to Heaven At Will to Get Your Gifts = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Transporting Physically At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Over-Emphasis on Angels and Specifically Arc-Angels = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Going into Trances At Will = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Trance Dancing = BAD DOCTRINE
> • Hyper-Grace: Christians Do Not Need to Repent of Sin = BAD DOCTRINE"
>
> Well - there goes the Prophetic movement!!
> Seriously - I cannot believe they posted this on the Elijah List!
> Steve - This is exactly all the stuff your followers have gotten into!
> Most of the guys you promote - these are the exact 'New Age'-type
> practices that they teach! Surely you know this?
>
> So now, to finish this article, I need some "clarification" from Steve
> Schultz. I am very encouraged by this apparent change of heart,
> Steve, but I need to know if you will now CEASE forthwith any and
> all publication of the materials and teachings of these people - until
> they publicly repent and apologize for this 'New Age' heresy. And
> I need to know if you - Steve Schultz - will now publicly renounce
> the promotion of these deceptive preachers around the world. (Sorry
> to be so blunt about it, but we really need to hear this from you).
> I am so glad that you published Cramer's piece. But now we really
> need to know where Elijah List stands - and whether things have
> truly changed or not. We look forward to your reply.
>
> And I ask everyone reading this to please forward it to your
> Charismatic friends. People need to know that this stuff is finally
> being declared as "BAD DOCTRINE" - even by the Elijah List itself.
> Please let everyone know, so this deception can be stopped. You
> would be amazed how widespread it is.
>
> -You can comment on this article at the following website-
>
> http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/
>
> God bless you all.
>
> -Andrew Strom.
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